In Conversation with Caroline Lucas – The Stand Comedy Club

This was a fascinating hour with former Green MP, Caroline Lucas. She answered questions on a wide range of subjects from the interviewer, Graham Spiers, and members of the audience. Unlike some politicians, Lucas does not duck questions, but gives thoughtful, straightforward and always illuminating answers.

Lucas is a trailblazer in British politics. She was the first Green MP in 2010, having previously been an MEP since 1999. The first leader of the Green Party of England and Wales from 2008-12, she was also co-leader from 2016-18. At this year’s General Election, she stepped down as an MP.

Lucas is unimpressed by the new Labour Government, saying it’s better than the Tories, but that’s a very low bar. She doesn’t accept the necessity for cuts such as the recent abolition of the winter fuel allowance for most pensioners. The Greens want a wealth tax of 1% on those with assets of more than £10million and 2% on assets of more than £1billion. This would raise billions, and the super-rich could easily afford to pay.

A fair electoral system, based on proportional representation, was essential.

In July Labour had won just one third of the votes, but two thirds of the seats. A member of the audience said he used to believe in PR but was now worried because this year the Reform Party would have won far more parliamentary seats under PR.  Lucas pointed out that the electoral system should not be manipulated just to produce the result you want. It should be as democratic as possible, reflecting the wishes of the electorate. But it was important to counteract the lies and misinformation of the populist right.

Answering a question from someone working for an onshore wind company, Lucas said there should be discussions with local communities about the best place for wind turbines. Also, they should receive some recompense (eg cheaper electricity bills). She added that not everywhere is suitable for wind turbines. On nuclear power, Lucas said that apart from the fact no-one had worked out how to dispose of nuclear waste, it was very slow and costly. Nuclear was marginally better than fossil fuels, but we should be concentrating on clean renewable energy. She condemned the Tories for granting so many new licenses for oil drilling. Labour was right not to grant any more, but they should revoke some of those awarded by the Tories. For instance, the Rosebank oil field would produce emissions equivalent to those of the 28 poorest countries in the world. Asked about whether the target of achieving net zero by 2050 was feasible, Lucas said possibly not, but we should keep striving for it. We must cut carbon emissions altogether.

Unlike most politicians, Lucas admits to making mistakes. She said she had supported the Brexit Referendum because she felt it was time for an honest debate about the pros and cons of the EU. But the Referendum campaign was plagued with the lies and misinformation of the Leave campaign. Now she regrets her support for the Referendum. 

Referring to the title of her new book, ‘Another England’, Lucas said that she believed Scotland would probably be independent within the foreseeable future. Also, Northern Ireland has a Sinn Fein First Minister, Michelle O’Neill, who’s made it clear she will press for a referendum on Irish unity. And even in Wales the Independence movement has grown in recent years. So, it’s possible England will be a separate state once more. Farage and others made people think of England as unfriendly to immigrants and nostalgic for Empire. So Lucas wanted to write about another England which could be identified with much more positive things – inclusive, forward looking; the country of the Diggers, the Chartists and the suffragettes.

A member of the audience said her partner had been jailed for a protest at a weapons factory, linked to supplying armaments to Israel. Lucas said that recently passed Tory legislation had introduced new offences, making it more difficult to protest peacefully. The UN Special Rapporteur had condemned the UK’s new anti-protest laws and the long prison sentences which had been imposed on some climate activists. The Labour Government needed to be pressurised to repeal or amend anti protest laws.

Lucas said that the UK must stop supplying arms to Israel. It was ridiculous that the Foreign Secretary, David Lammy, still seemed unsure whether Israel had committed war crimes in Gaza. Surely it must be obvious to anyone now that they had.

Other topics discussed included protests involving destruction of property (Lucas was opposed); a just transition away from fossil fuels; pollution in rivers and seas; Labour under Jeremy Corbyn; abolition of the House of Lords; a written constitution; asylum seekers; The Daily Mail; and being the only Green MP.

Caroline Lucas is one of the outstanding politicians of her generation. Her inspirational leadership has been instrumental in alerting people to the climate emergency. During this stimulating hour, Lucas showed how well informed she is about a range of major issues. She’s a great communicator, able to explain articulately the most complex issues. An uplifting hour.

This was a one-off appearance at the Fringe.  But more information can be found on Caroline Lucas’s website: https://carolinelucas.com/

Reviewer: Tom Scott

Reviewed: 25th August 2024

North West End UK Rating: